@philipjohn - Cheers for the comment Phillip sorry I am only getting back to you now. I certainly think you're right in that the partnership you have with Ross seems very special and possibly the perfect mix between business and journalism. Clearly there are tons of other sites like Lichfield Live that don't have the skills you two possess and they aren't doing as well for that very reason.

The point about debt is very important too - attitude to debt can be key in whether you decide to make something into your business. I will freely admit, with almost 20k student debt hanging over me, that any whiff of debt and even just the idea that I'm not chipping away at my existing debt is not a pleasant thought. But then a risk is only a risk if it's not thought through and weighed up so maybe that's my problem.

@iammarcthomas - Thanks for dropping in a comment Mark and for sharing your situation. The support of your family and wife is noteworthy - I've said forever that entrepreneurial journalism is for the lucky few who 1) are able to get help financially from parents and family and 2) can code. I wish I had either or both. (That clearly in jest, in case it wasn't obvious - I realise you work in a bar too!)

Well, that's the thing I haven't tried probably as much as I should for various reasons. One, there's five of us so ideas take a bit longer to discuss (collaboration is a blessing and a curse) and ownership of the project is something we've kind of put off because it's a tough discussion to have ie how much of a company does someone get just because they're willing to take the idea forward.

Strategy wise, we've had ideas (we've threatened since March to do an ebook and #jconf could well be the not-for-profit little brother of something bigger if we saw fit and there was a demand) that we've tried to keep under wraps a bit in case we ever got round to executing them.

Finally, we've never actually had time to stand back and look at where we might go. We've always had jobs etc (I started at the Guardian before my City course was up) so I'm very jealous of the six weeks yo've had on Plastik mag. In fact, let me rephrase that - I'm jealous of the fact that you've been brave enough to work on your own project rather than feel obliged to find work like I have. Which I think sums up the whole risk/enterprise/journalism problem in a nutshell.

A very honest post - and you make a good point: that actually, not everyone wants to be entrepreneurial (in fact, they are probably in the minority) and as much as people like me can promote it as an alternative to the 9-5, if you don't wanna do it, you don't wanna do it.

Most people, rather than being driven by the desire "to be an entrepreneur" have an idea they're desperate to make happen, and that is what motivates them.

The only thing I would add is that if you do want to do something like this, a 'failure' like yours is not the end of it - it is just the beginning. I don't know of any great entrepreneurs that don't have a string of fuckups and failures behind them. Someone once said "if you've never failed, you've never tried" - an attitude like that is something we can all do with, regardless of how we work.

Interesting. I didn't know that you had tried to make Wannabehacks your job.

I think it's harder going than people imagine. As I've said before, I have it relatively easy when it comes to earning an income. I'm able to work part time on design jobs (and yes, also on a bar!) in order to pay the bills. My wife also works and we are able to make rent together with some help from family.

Making rent is really all we need right now.

That said, I don't think that's a great way to live life in the long term and you need to develop strategies for making more than just the bare minimum of money.

I'm not sure what they business plan for Wannabe Hacks is, but I don't see much advertising and I can't find any reference to a product (book, conference series etc.), there's no pay-for model on the site and I'm not aware of any premium events that you've organised.

This isn't to say that you couldn't do any of those things - I believe you could and doing so would at least give you a bit of paid time on the site which you could supplement with freelancing or just mind-numbing admin work at a non-journalism business.

I'm not saying you've failed or that it's bad - it's just that looking from the outside, I can't see that you've tried to make any money (and I mean that in the most friendly of manners).

We're all just starting out. Even big publishing houses will say that they don't make any profit on their magazines until the third year. I've been working on Plastik (as my daytime occupation) for about 6 weeks now - I've got a way to go before I can stop pouring pints.

Thanks for posting this, it's a good insight. I'm not keen on the entrepreneurial journalism thing, as I've blogged about before.

A big reason is because of my own experience. I've worked for myself for nearly four years and it's not been easy. In the first 6 months it wasn't going great and I had to move out of the flat I adored in the city I love and go back to live with my parents. That was hard to, and it was hard living back at home after 4 years away. I also ended up having to sell my car and manage to rack up a lot of debt (commercial, not student, debt!).

I've hard to learn the hard way how to deal with clients. At one point a client owed my £10k.

Having done all that I've learned a lot and I'm still learning more. However, I've *wanted* to be an entrepreneur since puberty! It has been my dream to work for myself and that's the reason why I've been able to stick to it and take the necessary risks.

Journalists like yourself don't *want* to be entrepreneurs and so lack the passion and drive to do so. Rather, you need to find yourself entrepreneurial spirits and align yourself with those. That's why I believe myself and Ross work so well together with Lichfield Live. He has the passion for journalism and I have the passion for start ups...